Winner's Choice & Braxton Big 16

[Bearhugger]

Upon the conclusion of wrestling weekend ending Saturday, January 12, my good friend "TrueSouthFanWithAnExcelSpreadsheet" asked me to share this information with the West Virginia Wrestling Family.

Facts:

1. The biggest wrestling extravaganza within the WV borders was The Winner's Choice. The second largest was the Braxton County Invitational aka The Big 16. St. Mary's had a tournament but only 10 teams showed up and it turned into a round robin event in the majority of the weight classes.

2. The WC had 30 teams show up. The BCI had 15. Both tournaments had some JV wrestlers mixed in.

3. The average number of byes per weight class at the Winner's Choice was 11.64 for 32 brackets. The average number of byes per weight class at Braxton was 4.14 for 16 brackets. The Winner's Choice overall bye % was 36.38%. The Braxton Invitational's overall bye % was 25.89%


4. The Winner's Choice and the Braxton County Invitational COULD HAVE BEEN COMBINED into a Super Tournament running 32 brackets per weight class. Details for the hypothetical combined tournament are as follows:


Only 5 weight classes would have required pigtails. 132 would have had 37 wrestlers. 138 = 35 wrestlers. 145 = 38 wrestlers. 152 = 42 wrestlers ( a few JV at the BCI). 285 = 41 wrestlers.


106 and 126 would have had 32 wrestlers for their 32 brackets, thus no byes and no need for a pigtail.


The remaining seven weight classes: 113, 120, 160, 170, 182, 195 and 220 would have still had byes. In other words, 45 teams combined could not fill up seven weight classes or 50% of a team.

[Bearhugger]

TrueSouthFanWithAnExcelSpreadsheet requested that the spreadsheet be shared also.

[dontlikethelights]

Dead Horse.jpg (119.59 KiB) Viewed 9335 times

[BIPRIDE]

This would be great but you know MONEY would be a problem

[rodneyjwv]

Dontlikethelights not sure why you call this a dead horse. It is a problem that is quickly eroding the quality of this great sport. Just because your choose to keep your eyes closed or ignore this problem, it isn't going away without changes.
I know Lloyd Christmas will object to my comparisons of wrestling and Life, oh well. I gave this some thought before finishing my reply, looking in my mind for inspiration, I kept being drawn back to President Kennedy's inauguration speech. He was referring to sending men to the moon and returning them to earth safely. He said we choose and strive to do this because it's hard if not impossible.
i know wrestling and space exploration are two different things (apples to oranges) as some say. I'm not comparing the two, what I am trying to get across is Change can be good! A lot of people thought Kennedy was Crazy, they say the same about Bearhugger.
Hugger loves the sport as we all can read and deduce from his many posts. He is only suggesting that we open our eyes to changes that will make it better!
Also hugger isn't using every chance he gets to beg for funding, most of huggers ideas raise capital for the host team or teams.

[TheBoxer]

Upon the conclusion of wrestling weekend ending Saturday, January 12, my good friend "TrueSouthFanWithAnExcelSpreadsheet" asked me to share this information with the West Virginia Wrestling Family.

Facts:

1. The biggest wrestling extravaganza within the WV borders was The Winner's Choice. The second largest was the Braxton County Invitational aka The Big 16. St. Mary's had a tournament but only 10 teams showed up and it turned into a round robin event in the majority of the weight classes.

2. The WC had 30 teams show up. The BCI had 15. Both tournaments had some JV wrestlers mixed in.

3. The average number of byes per weight class at the Winner's Choice was 11.64 for 32 brackets. The average number of byes per weight class at Braxton was 4.14 for 16 brackets. The Winner's Choice overall bye % was 36.38%. The Braxton Invitational's overall bye % was 25.89%


4. The Winner's Choice and the Braxton County Invitational COULD HAVE BEEN COMBINED into a Super Tournament running 32 brackets per weight class. Details for the hypothetical combined tournament are as follows:


Only 5 weight classes would have required pigtails. 132 would have had 37 wrestlers. 138 = 35 wrestlers. 145 = 38 wrestlers. 152 = 42 wrestlers ( a few JV at the BCI). 285 = 41 wrestlers.


106 and 126 would have had 32 wrestlers for their 32 brackets, thus no byes and no need for a pigtail.


The remaining seven weight classes: 113, 120, 160, 170, 182, 195 and 220 would have still had byes. In other words, 45 teams combined could not fill up seven weight classes or 50% of a team.

It sounds like you have an amazing idea for some quality wrestling. Have you considered that the money that both of the host teams brought in would be reduced? (if they combined and split the proceeds) Or eliminated entirely for one team. We are so focused on our enjoyment, as spectators, we are overlooking that the money that each of these teams made off these tournaments is needed to run the programs.

How much enjoyment will there be for us fans if there are no teams because the schools cant afford to operate the programs?

[Bearhugger]

To be clear, the point "TrueSouthFanWithAnExcelSpreadsheet" was trying to make was NOT to merge the two tournaments.

The point was that both tournaments could invite more teams, thus make even more money.

Whereas we are talking about opportunities, the last weekend in January is once again becoming an opportunity for something new.

We have to be careful because some events appear to be losing teams and sooner or later some teams will decide a given event is not worth the amount of money required to go participate.

[aacoach70]

One could make the argument that reducing the size of these tournaments may not be a bad thing. If enough teams decided to break off, we could see 2 or 3 new tournaments pop up around the state every weekend, so teams and fans could have more choices about where to go. Other schools could host and have opportunities to raise money and generate local support. A few more smaller tournaments might not be all bad. If you could fill it up with some good matches, what's wrong with a good old-fashioned 8-man bracket that can be concluded in only one day? There's a novel idea.

[KDunbar]

One could make the argument that reducing the size of these tournaments may not be a bad thing. If enough teams decided to break off, we could see 2 or 3 new tournaments pop up around the state every weekend, so teams and fans could have more choices about where to go. Other schools could host and have opportunities to raise money and generate local support. A few more smaller tournaments might not be all bad. If you could fill it up with some good matches, what's wrong with a good old-fashioned 8-man bracket that can be concluded in only one day? There's a novel idea.

I'm highlighting your post, not because I disagree with it, but to make a different point. Bearhugger started of this line of discussion by asking why Moorefield was denied entry to the Winner's Choice. The poster otherwise known as "MarxaTKE" gave a response. Since we have no idea who that is we are unsure if their information is accurate. On a separate post I have asked for clarification, since the Winner's Choice was 3 teams short of a full 32 varsity team tournament.
With the above being noted, Bearhugger made the observation that historically the Winner's Choice has never had a full 32 man bracket despite having 32 teams (or something along those lines). That was really the extent of it. It was a practical observation and, as a private business owner he merely made some common sense observations how it might be financially beneficial for everyone involved (along with better for high school wrestlers in general). He was not critical of the tournament or of the people running it, unless they were indeed guilty of inappropriately denying Moorefield of entry.
The point was not the size of the tournament. An eight man bracket over one day would be perfect. Just make sure eight wrestlers show up for each weight class.

[Bearhugger]

One could make the argument that reducing the size of these tournaments may not be a bad thing. If enough teams decided to break off, we could see 2 or 3 new tournaments pop up around the state every weekend, so teams and fans could have more choices about where to go. Other schools could host and have opportunities to raise money and generate local support. A few more smaller tournaments might not be all bad. If you could fill it up with some good matches, what's wrong with a good old-fashioned 8-man bracket that can be concluded in only one day? There's a novel idea.

I'm highlighting your post, not because I disagree with it, but to make a different point. Bearhugger started of this line of discussion by asking why Moorefield was denied entry to the Winner's Choice. The poster otherwise known as "MarxaTKE" gave a response. Since we have no idea who that is we are unsure if their information is accurate. On a separate post I have asked for clarification, since the Winner's Choice was 3 teams short of a full 32 varsity team tournament.
With the above being noted, Bearhugger made the observation that historically the Winner's Choice has never had a full 32 man bracket despite having 32 teams (or something along those lines). That was really the extent of it. It was a practical observation and, as a private business owner he merely made some common sense observations how it might be financially beneficial for everyone involved (along with better for high school wrestlers in general). He was not critical of the tournament or of the people running it, unless they were indeed guilty of inappropriately denying Moorefield of entry.
The point was not the size of the tournament. An eight man bracket over one day would be perfect. Just make sure eight wrestlers show up for each weight class.

The formula changed years ago but few have used it.

Old School Tournament Formula:
8 Team Bracket means invite 8 teams.
16 Team Bracket means invite 16 teams.
32 Team Bracket means invite 32 teams.

New Age Tournament Formula:
8 Team Bracket means invite 12 to 16 teams.
16 Team Bracket means invite 20 to 24 teams.
32 Team Bracket means invite 36 to 40 teams.


WSAZ Formula: "We got 64 brackets. Bring everybody until we hit 64 wrestlers in a bracket. We are about wrestling"


One interesting point that my good friend "TrueSouthFanWith10FingersAnd10Toes" pointed out is that math hasn't changed in any of our lifetimes.

[Lloyd Christmas]

Where at the winners choice do you seat all those fans and wrestlers? I'm not the smartest guy bur I'm pretty sure there is more seating at big sandy. Marxatke knows what he is talking about and after a cancellation Moorefield was offered a spot and were not able to come per administration

[Bearhugger]

Where at the winners choice do you seat all those fans and wrestlers? I'm not the smartest guy bur I'm pretty sure there is more seating at big sandy. Marxatke knows what he is talking about and after a cancellation Moorefield was offered a spot and were not able to come per administration

1. There was never a suggestion of merging the WC and the BCI. However, math is math. If all 32 teams invited had full lime ups, then your concern of parking and seating could happen. However, on another post, I complemented the Winner's Choice in having plenty of available parking and seating on Friday. There was even more parking and seating on Saturday.

2. Moorefield jumped in and found a replacement wrestling event for their kids after the "confusion" with the Winner's Choice. They went out of state and wrestled in Virginia. I wasn't going to mention this but since you did, I will clarify further. Teams cannot wait around until the Thursday before the Winner's Choice to accept an invitation.

[lovesthesport]

Once again Bearhugger, just because you don’t have the details, it doesn’t make something “confusing” as you put it. Moorefield asked to join the Winner’s Choice tournament, they were told via email, in the spring, that there were no open spots, but that if one became available, they would be notified. They were asked 2 days before the tournament if they wanted in because 2 teams were told by their administration that they could not attend because of the impending weather. Coaches were being called at the tournament on Friday night to head home because of the weather. With all your “sources” you talk about all the time, it would be nice if some of them and even you, would get your facts straight before starting your crap. Just because the great bearhugger thinks something is a problem or is confusing or something needs your expertise to be “fixed”, it doesn’t always mean there actually is a problem, or that something is actually confusing or that anything actually needs fixed.

[matcoach90]

Once again Bearhugger, just because you don’t have the details, it doesn’t make something “confusing” as you put it. Moorefield asked to join the Winner’s Choice tournament, they were told via email, in the spring, that there were no open spots, but that if one became available, they would be notified. They were asked 2 days before the tournament if they wanted in because 2 teams were told by their administration that they could not attend because of the impending weather. Coaches were being called at the tournament on Friday night to head home because of the weather. With all your “sources” you talk about all the time, it would be nice if some of them and even you, would get your facts straight before starting your crap. Just because the great bearhugger thinks something is a problem or is confusing or something needs your expertise to be “fixed”, it doesn’t always mean there actually is a problem, or that something is actually confusing or that anything actually needs fixed.

This^^^^

Bearhugger likes attention and appears to think highly of himself. Unfortunately, there are a few on this site who like to feed the Bear. I guess we need a sign posted on this board... DON’T FEED THE BEARS!

[lovesthesport]

Matcoach90, I agree with your assessment. Sometimes you just need to clear the air. His continual dialogue without facts is smothering sometimes. I apologize for feeding the bear.

[matcoach90]

Matcoach90, I agree with your assessment. Sometimes you just need to clear the air. His continual dialogue without facts is smothering sometimes. I apologize for feeding the bear.

I was actually referring to those who give him any legitimacy. LOL

[brentsams]

So you want to combine tournaments and have a the state tournament in the middle of January? I don't like it. Let Braxton County and St. Marys have their smaller area tournaments. Mat time is important in developing young wrestlers and they are not going to get it going 0-2 at a large tournament. If you want to grow the sport, it's O.K. to go small and encourage participation. Maybe I should read the whole thread instead of scanning it, but small events is part of the great Americana way. I agree with Dontlikethelights, harping on the amount of byes is beating a dead horse.

[Bearhugger]

So you want to combine tournaments and have a the state tournament in the middle of January? I don't like it. Let Braxton County and St. Marys have their smaller area tournaments. Mat time is important in developing young wrestlers and they are not going to get it going 0-2 at a large tournament. If you want to grow the sport, it's O.K. to go small and encourage participation. Maybe I should read the whole thread instead of scanning it, but small events is part of the great Americana way. I agree with Dontlikethelights, harping on the amount of byes is beating a dead horse.

No, I do not want to combine the two tournaments. I see how my wording could have suggested that. My point was to focus on the overwhelming amount of byes in each weight class at the Winner's Choice despite them thinking they were full.

Byes do not develop young wrestlers either.

From a different perspective, I am sure many parents and team supporters spend a great deal of time on fundraising. They do this because they love their wrestlers and want them to have opportunities to go and compete at higher level events instead of being locked into the "Bugtussle Classic" that they have been going to for the past 17 years. The "Bugtussle Classic" has now gone from a 16 team bracket to a 16 team bye fest to now a round robin event disguised as a 16 bracket tournament.

Besides all of the time spent on fundraising, these same parents take off work on Fridays, drive many hours, get motels and then watch their wrestler collect byes on Friday night. It is no wonder some parents do not encourage their kids to stick with wrestling.


Here is another exercise for the wrestling community to conduct. Look over the team schedules and team results for the weekend January 11th and 12th. Why were there so many teams sitting idle and/or traveling out of state to wrestle??????

Fixing problems is hard. It is very hard. Ignoring rock hard facts and neglecting recommendations is easy.

[JustSomeone]

So you want to combine tournaments and have a the state tournament in the middle of January? I don't like it. Let Braxton County and St. Marys have their smaller area tournaments. Mat time is important in developing young wrestlers and they are not going to get it going 0-2 at a large tournament. If you want to grow the sport, it's O.K. to go small and encourage participation. Maybe I should read the whole thread instead of scanning it, but small events is part of the great Americana way. I agree with Dontlikethelights, harping on the amount of byes is beating a dead horse.

No, I do not want to combine the two tournaments. I see how my wording could have suggested that. My point was to focus on the overwhelming amount of byes in each weight class at the Winner's Choice despite them thinking they were full.

Byes do not develop young wrestlers either.

From a different perspective, I am sure many parents and team supporters spend a great deal of time on fundraising. They do this because they love their wrestlers and want them to have opportunities to go and compete at higher level events instead of being locked into the "Bugtussle Classic" that they have been going to for the past 17 years. The "Bugtussle Classic" has now gone from a 16 team bracket to a 16 team bye fest to now a round robin event disguised as a 16 bracket tournament.

Besides all of the time spent on fundraising, these same parents take off work on Fridays, drive many hours, get motels and then watch their wrestler collect byes on Friday night. It is no wonder some parents do not encourage their kids to stick with wrestling.


Here is another exercise for the wrestling community to conduct. Look over the team schedules and team results for the weekend January 11th and 12th. Why were there so many teams sitting idle and/or traveling out of state to wrestle??????

Fixing problems is hard. It is very hard. Ignoring rock hard facts and neglecting recommendations is easy.

If these tournaments are running things so wrong, if the coaches just aren't doing a good enough job, please come do better. Dig your hands into a program, host a tournament, something other than sit on a computer criticizing those for not changing when you do nothing to help that change. You complain on these forums about coaches and tournaments, step up.

For some of these smaller schools in smaller areas, there is only so much money that can be raised from fundraising. This "Bugtussle classic" might be the only source of revenue for some teams. You talk of parents taking off work only to see Byes, how do you think those parents feels when they take off work, drive several hours, just to see their wrestler go one and done because of a pigtail? (see several weight classes at the middle school level at WSAZ). You talk of teams going out of state or sitting idle, seeing out of state competition is a great opportunity, are you suggesting they should not go out of state? I will just take it on faith you misspoke. Some teams do not have the support that other schools do, both financially and within the school board. Some teams can't afford to travel far and get hotels, and in some cases the school board doesn't allow it.

Instead of staying in your usual spot at the top of the bleachers, looking down on all of us who invest so much more time, effort, and money than you do, come down here and get your hands onto a program and actually DO SOMETHING other than type on a keyboard.

[matcoach90]

So you want to combine tournaments and have a the state tournament in the middle of January? I don't like it. Let Braxton County and St. Marys have their smaller area tournaments. Mat time is important in developing young wrestlers and they are not going to get it going 0-2 at a large tournament. If you want to grow the sport, it's O.K. to go small and encourage participation. Maybe I should read the whole thread instead of scanning it, but small events is part of the great Americana way. I agree with Dontlikethelights, harping on the amount of byes is beating a dead horse.

No, I do not want to combine the two tournaments. I see how my wording could have suggested that. My point was to focus on the overwhelming amount of byes in each weight class at the Winner's Choice despite them thinking they were full.

Byes do not develop young wrestlers either.

From a different perspective, I am sure many parents and team supporters spend a great deal of time on fundraising. They do this because they love their wrestlers and want them to have opportunities to go and compete at higher level events instead of being locked into the "Bugtussle Classic" that they have been going to for the past 17 years. The "Bugtussle Classic" has now gone from a 16 team bracket to a 16 team bye fest to now a round robin event disguised as a 16 bracket tournament.

Besides all of the time spent on fundraising, these same parents take off work on Fridays, drive many hours, get motels and then watch their wrestler collect byes on Friday night. It is no wonder some parents do not encourage their kids to stick with wrestling.


Here is another exercise for the wrestling community to conduct. Look over the team schedules and team results for the weekend January 11th and 12th. Why were there so many teams sitting idle and/or traveling out of state to wrestle??????

Fixing problems is hard. It is very hard. Ignoring rock hard facts and neglecting recommendations is easy.

If these tournaments are running things so wrong, if the coaches just aren't doing a good enough job, please come do better. Dig your hands into a program, host a tournament, something other than sit on a computer criticizing those for not changing when you do nothing to help that change. You complain on these forums about coaches and tournaments, step up.

For some of these smaller schools in smaller areas, there is only so much money that can be raised from fundraising. This "Bugtussle classic" might be the only source of revenue for some teams. You talk of parents taking off work only to see Byes, how do you think those parents feels when they take off work, drive several hours, just to see their wrestler go one and done because of a pigtail? (see several weight classes at the middle school level at WSAZ). You talk of teams going out of state or sitting idle, seeing out of state competition is a great opportunity, are you suggesting they should not go out of state? I will just take it on faith you misspoke. Some teams do not have the support that other schools do, both financially and within the school board. Some teams can't afford to travel far and get hotels, and in some cases the school board doesn't allow it.

Instead of staying in your usual spot at the top of the bleachers, looking down on all of us who invest so much more time, effort, and money than you do, come down here and get your hands onto a program and actually DO SOMETHING other than type on a keyboard.

Perfectly stated!

[Bearhugger]

So you want to combine tournaments and have a the state tournament in the middle of January? I don't like it. Let Braxton County and St. Marys have their smaller area tournaments. Mat time is important in developing young wrestlers and they are not going to get it going 0-2 at a large tournament. If you want to grow the sport, it's O.K. to go small and encourage participation. Maybe I should read the whole thread instead of scanning it, but small events is part of the great Americana way. I agree with Dontlikethelights, harping on the amount of byes is beating a dead horse.

No, I do not want to combine the two tournaments. I see how my wording could have suggested that. My point was to focus on the overwhelming amount of byes in each weight class at the Winner's Choice despite them thinking they were full.

Byes do not develop young wrestlers either.

From a different perspective, I am sure many parents and team supporters spend a great deal of time on fundraising. They do this because they love their wrestlers and want them to have opportunities to go and compete at higher level events instead of being locked into the "Bugtussle Classic" that they have been going to for the past 17 years. The "Bugtussle Classic" has now gone from a 16 team bracket to a 16 team bye fest to now a round robin event disguised as a 16 bracket tournament.

Besides all of the time spent on fundraising, these same parents take off work on Fridays, drive many hours, get motels and then watch their wrestler collect byes on Friday night. It is no wonder some parents do not encourage their kids to stick with wrestling.


Here is another exercise for the wrestling community to conduct. Look over the team schedules and team results for the weekend January 11th and 12th. Why were there so many teams sitting idle and/or traveling out of state to wrestle??????

Fixing problems is hard. It is very hard. Ignoring rock hard facts and neglecting recommendations is easy.

If these tournaments are running things so wrong, if the coaches just aren't doing a good enough job, please come do better. Dig your hands into a program, host a tournament, something other than sit on a computer criticizing those for not changing when you do nothing to help that change. You complain on these forums about coaches and tournaments, step up.

For some of these smaller schools in smaller areas, there is only so much money that can be raised from fundraising. This "Bugtussle classic" might be the only source of revenue for some teams. You talk of parents taking off work only to see Byes, how do you think those parents feels when they take off work, drive several hours, just to see their wrestler go one and done because of a pigtail? (see several weight classes at the middle school level at WSAZ). You talk of teams going out of state or sitting idle, seeing out of state competition is a great opportunity, are you suggesting they should not go out of state? I will just take it on faith you misspoke. Some teams do not have the support that other schools do, both financially and within the school board. Some teams can't afford to travel far and get hotels, and in some cases the school board doesn't allow it.

Instead of staying in your usual spot at the top of the bleachers, looking down on all of us who invest so much more time, effort, and money than you do, come down here and get your hands onto a program and actually DO SOMETHING other than type on a keyboard.

I have an idea that will help all tournaments if they choose to use the information. Unfortunatley my idea will have to wait until next season. We are now in the point of the season where conference tournaments and regional tournaments are all that is left.

[JustSomeone]

No, I do not want to combine the two tournaments. I see how my wording could have suggested that. My point was to focus on the overwhelming amount of byes in each weight class at the Winner's Choice despite them thinking they were full.

Byes do not develop young wrestlers either.

From a different perspective, I am sure many parents and team supporters spend a great deal of time on fundraising. They do this because they love their wrestlers and want them to have opportunities to go and compete at higher level events instead of being locked into the "Bugtussle Classic" that they have been going to for the past 17 years. The "Bugtussle Classic" has now gone from a 16 team bracket to a 16 team bye fest to now a round robin event disguised as a 16 bracket tournament.

Besides all of the time spent on fundraising, these same parents take off work on Fridays, drive many hours, get motels and then watch their wrestler collect byes on Friday night. It is no wonder some parents do not encourage their kids to stick with wrestling.


Here is another exercise for the wrestling community to conduct. Look over the team schedules and team results for the weekend January 11th and 12th. Why were there so many teams sitting idle and/or traveling out of state to wrestle??????

Fixing problems is hard. It is very hard. Ignoring rock hard facts and neglecting recommendations is easy.

If these tournaments are running things so wrong, if the coaches just aren't doing a good enough job, please come do better. Dig your hands into a program, host a tournament, something other than sit on a computer criticizing those for not changing when you do nothing to help that change. You complain on these forums about coaches and tournaments, step up.

For some of these smaller schools in smaller areas, there is only so much money that can be raised from fundraising. This "Bugtussle classic" might be the only source of revenue for some teams. You talk of parents taking off work only to see Byes, how do you think those parents feels when they take off work, drive several hours, just to see their wrestler go one and done because of a pigtail? (see several weight classes at the middle school level at WSAZ). You talk of teams going out of state or sitting idle, seeing out of state competition is a great opportunity, are you suggesting they should not go out of state? I will just take it on faith you misspoke. Some teams do not have the support that other schools do, both financially and within the school board. Some teams can't afford to travel far and get hotels, and in some cases the school board doesn't allow it.

Instead of staying in your usual spot at the top of the bleachers, looking down on all of us who invest so much more time, effort, and money than you do, come down here and get your hands onto a program and actually DO SOMETHING other than type on a keyboard.

I have an idea that will help all tournaments if they choose to use the information. Unfortunatley my idea will have to wait until next season. We are now in the point of the season where conference tournaments and regional tournaments are all that is left.

Oh great. Can't wait to see more criticizing and "ideas" from someone who has no clue. Should be a riveting read.

[Bearhugger]

If these tournaments are running things so wrong, if the coaches just aren't doing a good enough job, please come do better. Dig your hands into a program, host a tournament, something other than sit on a computer criticizing those for not changing when you do nothing to help that change. You complain on these forums about coaches and tournaments, step up.

For some of these smaller schools in smaller areas, there is only so much money that can be raised from fundraising. This "Bugtussle classic" might be the only source of revenue for some teams. You talk of parents taking off work only to see Byes, how do you think those parents feels when they take off work, drive several hours, just to see their wrestler go one and done because of a pigtail? (see several weight classes at the middle school level at WSAZ). You talk of teams going out of state or sitting idle, seeing out of state competition is a great opportunity, are you suggesting they should not go out of state? I will just take it on faith you misspoke. Some teams do not have the support that other schools do, both financially and within the school board. Some teams can't afford to travel far and get hotels, and in some cases the school board doesn't allow it.

Instead of staying in your usual spot at the top of the bleachers, looking down on all of us who invest so much more time, effort, and money than you do, come down here and get your hands onto a program and actually DO SOMETHING other than type on a keyboard.

I have an idea that will help all tournaments if they choose to use the information. Unfortunatley my idea will have to wait until next season. We are now in the point of the season where conference tournaments and regional tournaments are all that is left.

Oh great. Can't wait to see more criticizing and "ideas" from someone who has no clue. Should be a riveting read.

I will make it simple enough for you to understand.