Top 5 wrestlers

[MalcomFlex]

I follow mostly the lower weight classes so I can't intelligently speak on anything above 138 but I can tell you one thing.......East Fairmont has the best starting 4 in the state. Whorton/Cassucio(106), Flint(113), Laya(120) and Whorton(126) will all be state champions. Too bad either Whorton or Cassucio will not be able to make the trip to Huntington because both are the top 2 in AA/A.

I don't think he said anything about the 106lb not making it out of the second period but I do think he said that East has the top two 106 in a/aa

One thing is absolutely apparent. The East contingent can use the edit button.
SMacnamare originally said that Roberts and Irizarry would not make it out of the second period and then edited his post.
JW took issue with my report of WSAZ results and then edited his post to wish everyone good luck.

No personal affiliation with either team. If you believe that you have a "murderer's row" you should be able to rack up 24 dual points in a span of 4 classes against in state competition. You should not be upset when someone points out that there may be competition for your murderers. JW says that one of his sons became the murderer that he is as a result of learning from a previous loss. I think he is probably right, that's how the good ones become great. I think that was also the point of one of the other posters who said that it is the duty of a coach to find competition/losses for wrestlers so that they grow and improve. So maybe you directional people whether you are South or East are all trying to say the same thing just in a different way.
FWIW I think the Humphreys/Haynes one two punch is pretty impressive, I think East has some good lower weights, I would give a compliment to the South team but their fans would think it wasn't good enough or someone else would think that it was too good. The former Point assistant would say that it is all inherited talent anyway.

Noticed the editing as well hahaha

You are right though, there are some great wrestlers in this state that simply do not get enough recognition for whatever reason. The more these kids go out of the state and compete and win, the more respect this great state will rightfully get! Good stuff!

[MalcomFlex]

106: Windland, Marrone, Donahue, Holt, Gray
113: Akerman, Bowen, Irizarry, Welker, Staud
120: Adkins, Roberts, Byrd, Wood, Simpson
126: Martin, Best, Kreamer, Love, Lorea
132: Carman, Shamblin, Moller, Rawlings, Isabell
138: Donahue, Lopez, Burdette, Flinn, Rohrbough
145: Humphreys, Jeffers, Starkey, Flinn, Fox
152: Lanham, Hinzman, Carder, Garcia, Hamlin
160: Nash, Pine, Miliam, Holley, Dunbar
170: Lambiotte, Morgan, Frisco, Simpkins, King
182: DeLong, Valachovic, Morgan, Hutchinson, Fischer
195: Allman, Jarvis, Ashbury, Loew, Lucas
220: Pomeroy, Haynes, Edgell, Wolfe, Porter
285: Holstein, Holley, McCune, Haga, Lear

Again, Roberts annihilated Adkins 10 days ago

[MalcomFlex]

Sounds like some one should go thru all the schedules and rank them on tuffness and effectiveness. Going to a weak tournament where a strong majority of your wrestlers easily make into the finals or a tournament where the majority of your wrestlers are barely able to get a win are, in my opinion, for what it's worth not an effective schedule

False. In my life, I have learned a lot more from losses than I ever did from winning. You can wrestle poorly against weak competition and still win and you can wrestle really well against great competition and still lose. If I wrestle sloppy against poor competition but the moves still work, would I truly understand that I need to improve my technique? No. If I did moves incorrectly against great competition and lose badly, I will have a better chance of understanding that I need to do things differently in order for that to not happen again. So, I absolutely disagree with you in regards to what you view as an effective wrestling schedule.

I was hoping you did, that means I'm on the right track.
Wrap your head around this thought, a wrestler will learn more in a six minute match then he will in a ten second pin. Win or lose

Wrong again buddy. If a kid does a move incorrectly and gets caught and pinned then they will learn that they should have not performed the move incorrectly.

[MalcomFlex]

coach -williams

If I was head coach of our team, yes. The Catch22 to this is financing. I brought this up in another thread. Not every team gets the financial support from their AD/principal/district to travel like South and Indy do. Would I like for the teams my son wrestles for to travel and face top competition at every chance they got? Absolutely. But that simply isn't going to happen because of money. Don't make the mistake of thinking that because other teams do not travel and face top teams means the coach is hiding from competition. When coaches have to scrape and beg just to come up with $200 for a bus for one day then it is not exactly easy to come up with funding for a bus for 2 or 3 days plus hotels rooms.

Coach, South is not just handed funds by the school or BOE to attend events. They have a dedicated, hardworking group of boosters, parents and fans who do fundraisers year round to allow the team to travel. It merely takes folks willing to organize these fundraiser and see them through. Any school can do it if they have the right people in place.[/quote]

Super correct and absolutely dead on!

[MalcomFlex]

My apologies, it was 132. Though a significant correlation is still there

Dang, do you mean this?

2016 state finals:
113 Brock Whorton, East Fairmont High School Dec Jacob Spencer, Roane County, 2-1

vs.

2016 Mike Ellis Invite: PS JV vs. Roane
132 Zach Wilson (PS) dec. Jacob Spencer, 3-0

[Bearhugger]

Yes, South does have an established culture that does tend to keep them at the top. However, if the team does not wrestle a schedule that is tougher than most then they will eventually fall off or even worse never reach their full potential. I am positive that South has higher standards than most programs. Which is another reason for their success. They do not only wish to compete in the state, they want to compete nationally as well. With the coaching staff and the caliber of kids that they have, I believe that one day they will do that. Not just every so often like in the past, but year after year for an extended period of time. That is their goal. If the kids are not put in a situation to achieve a higher level of greatness then they will never reach it. "Hot shot" 8th graders are taken into account when a schedule is made. If not, then it is a disservice to them as well. It is just extremely unfortunate that one of them got injured before the winter season began. With wrestling in the state being down right now, the only way to reach their full potential is wrestle some of the best teams in the nation. I am not bashing anyone, bc I know that the East kids are very good. However, it is a disservice to them that they are not competing against tougher competition to prepare them to achieve a higher level of greatness as well!

Using last season's NHSCA National tournament to continue this discussion, here are the facts:

South took 5 wrestlers. Two of them (2/5 = 40%) achieved All American status.

East Fairmont took 2 wrestlers. One of them (1/2 = 50%) achieved All American status.

South has 1,576 students and is the 5th largest school in WV in terms of population. 1,576 / 2 = 788.

East Fairmont has 746 students.

My "criteria" was intended to show that East Fairmont's schedule is not hurting them in anyway. Stevie Wonder sent me a private message and even he could see that my criteria backs up the point that EF is doing just fine.

With zero intel on East Fairmont's middle school and pee wee programs, I would speculate that they have something working pretty good up there. They have a few tough freshmen that I know of just from reading the scores.

Last season, East Fairmont had three state champions. South had two.

Using the numbers above, EF is doing pretty good and their schedule did not hurt them any.

If we were to list the top ten reasons why a team is good, the schedule would be somewhere between 6th and 10th. Too many other reasons that are more important.

Your criteria is not at all really helpful whenever you're comparing kids in different weight classes, grade divisions, classes (AAA and AA/A), etc. What I am stating is year after year, South is placed in a position in which they will wrestle tough competition. Competing against the best is the most efficient way to improve. It is easier for teams like St. Ed, Graham, Blair, etc. to do this bc there rooms are filled with some of the best kids in the nation. South has a great group of kids, but they are still not up to par with these schools. So to combat that they wrestle a tough schedule. So I disagree, a schedule is a big factor in this situation.

[highleghillary]

My apologies, it was 132. Though a significant correlation is still there

Dang, do you mean this?

2016 state finals:
113 Brock Whorton, East Fairmont High School Dec Jacob Spencer, Roane County, 2-1

vs.

2016 Mike Ellis Invite: PS JV vs. Roane
132 Zach Wilson (PS) dec. Jacob Spencer, 3-0

Yes, at least thats what I saw

[Frank]

False. In my life, I have learned a lot more from losses than I ever did from winning. You can wrestle poorly against weak competition and still win and you can wrestle really well against great competition and still lose. If I wrestle sloppy against poor competition but the moves still work, would I truly understand that I need to improve my technique? No. If I did moves incorrectly against great competition and lose badly, I will have a better chance of understanding that I need to do things differently in order for that to not happen again. So, I absolutely disagree with you in regards to what you view as an effective wrestling schedule.

I was hoping you did, that means I'm on the right track.
Wrap your head around this thought, a wrestler will learn more in a six minute match then he will in a ten second pin. Win or lose

Wrong again buddy. If a kid does a move incorrectly and gets caught and pinned then they will learn that they should have not performed the move incorrectly.

Practice Room

[SMacnamare]

I don't think he said anything about the 106lb not making it out of the second period but I do think he said that East has the top two 106 in a/aa

One thing is absolutely apparent. The East contingent can use the edit button.
SMacnamare originally said that Roberts and Irizarry would not make it out of the second period and then edited his post.
JW took issue with my report of WSAZ results and then edited his post to wish everyone good luck.

No personal affiliation with either team. If you believe that you have a "murderer's row" you should be able to rack up 24 dual points in a span of 4 classes against in state competition. You should not be upset when someone points out that there may be competition for your murderers. JW says that one of his sons became the murderer that he is as a result of learning from a previous loss. I think he is probably right, that's how the good ones become great. I think that was also the point of one of the other posters who said that it is the duty of a coach to find competition/losses for wrestlers so that they grow and improve. So maybe you directional people whether you are South or East are all trying to say the same thing just in a different way.
FWIW I think the Humphreys/Haynes one two punch is pretty impressive, I think East has some good lower weights, I would give a compliment to the South team but their fans would think it wasn't good enough or someone else would think that it was too good. The former Point assistant would say that it is all inherited talent anyway.

Noticed the editing as well hahaha

You are right though, there are some great wrestlers in this state that simply do not get enough recognition for whatever reason. The more these kids go out of the state and compete and win, the more respect this great state will rightfully get! Good stuff!

I have no idea about any editing. If my post was edited, it certainly was not done by me. And I'll continue to stand on my word.....106 and 126 would be competitive matches but for anyone to think Irazarry or Roberts would hang with Flint or Laya needs to enlighten everyone on the forum which dispensary they are purchasing their marijuana from. I'm certainly not taking anything away from these two fine wrestlers. I'm merely stating they are outgunned, especially Roberts.

[IndyHart]

I said I thought the matches would be competitive so I guess that comment was aimed partially at me. I saw where Roberts lost an 8-1 decision to Greg Quinn of Shadyside last weekend. Shadyside comes to Williamstown every year, and Quinn wrestled my nephew there a couple years ago. He was a sophomore then and I've kind of kept up with him since. Ranked second in Ohio in Division III. Won OVAC's last year. Tough kid. If you look back through the results on here, you'll see Quinn has beaten some pretty good WV wrestlers. I think the world of Cole Laya. He's beaten two of our best kids on the way to his two state championships. I watched every one of his matches at Sophomore Nationals last year. So I've got a pretty good idea of how good he is. I haven't seen Roberts wrestle in a couple years, but the fact that he is wrestling Quinn that close in his very first high school tournament tells me he is going to more than hold his own against good competition in this state. Maybe it's not any illegal substance; maybe I just stay informed and look at things logically.

Gator, does South plan on taking the entire team to PowerAde or just a partial team like they did at Ironman?

[Gator]

IndyHart: I'm headed up to Olentangy Saturday to watch South compete in their Invitational. I will find out if they are taking everyone, but I expect they will.

Best wishes in the tri tonight.

[forthekids]

I am pretty sure at Power Aid unlike Iron man you have to take the whole team. I don't think they have invitation only as the have a lot of teams wanting to get in. I could be wrong

[Gator]

Just had a friend tell me that South is taking the varsity entire team up for both days and JV team also.

[IndyHart]

Yeah, forthekids, you are wrong. A lot of the teams that go to PowerAde don't take a full lineup for a variety of reasons, just like Ironman. The entry fee pays for an entire team, whether you bring them all or not. Most teams don't have 14 guys that are ready for that level of competition.

Thanks, Gator.

[sfc1]

If I remember correctly when Humphreys from SA won last year SA didn't take a full team.

[Bearhugger]

Just had a friend tell me that South is taking the varsity entire team up for both days and JV team also.

To confirm, South is taking their JV team to the Powerade??????????

To follow up on IndyHart's comment about the fee, does the team fee cover a team over 14 wrestlers? Thus JV gets in at the same price???

If so, Huntington, University, St. Albans and Independence has an opportunity here. MalcolmFlex strongly feels that schedule strength makes wrestlers better. Let's make these JV kids better and take them to Powerade!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Gator]

I was told there is a separate tournament for JV on the 28th. Varsity is the 29 and 30th.

[IndyHart]

PowerAde has a JV tournament and a youth tournament associated with it. I think the youth tournament happens after. Entry into the tournament allows you to fill the 14 weights, although you can fill fewer weights than that. There aren't any JV guys in the varsity tournament.

[MalcomFlex]

I was hoping you did, that means I'm on the right track.
Wrap your head around this thought, a wrestler will learn more in a six minute match then he will in a ten second pin. Win or lose

Wrong again buddy. If a kid does a move incorrectly and gets caught and pinned then they will learn that they should have not performed the move incorrectly.

Practice Room

Negative. Doing a move incorrectly on a bad practice partner most likely will not have the same effect on a wrestler's psyche as a real match would. Again, nice try.

[MalcomFlex]

I said I thought the matches would be competitive so I guess that comment was aimed partially at me. I saw where Roberts lost an 8-1 decision to Greg Quinn of Shadyside last weekend. Shadyside comes to Williamstown every year, and Quinn wrestled my nephew there a couple years ago. He was a sophomore then and I've kind of kept up with him since. Ranked second in Ohio in Division III. Won OVAC's last year. Tough kid. If you look back through the results on here, you'll see Quinn has beaten some pretty good WV wrestlers. I think the world of Cole Laya. He's beaten two of our best kids on the way to his two state championships. I watched every one of his matches at Sophomore Nationals last year. So I've got a pretty good idea of how good he is. I haven't seen Roberts wrestle in a couple years, but the fact that he is wrestling Quinn that close in his very first high school tournament tells me he is going to more than hold his own against good competition in this state. Maybe it's not any illegal substance; maybe I just stay informed and look at things logically.

Gator, does South plan on taking the entire team to PowerAde or just a partial team like they did at Ironman?

Thank you. You sound like you have some sense. What's up with that?

[MalcomFlex]

Just had a friend tell me that South is taking the varsity entire team up for both days and JV team also.

To confirm, South is taking their JV team to the Powerade??????????

To follow up on IndyHart's comment about the fee, does the team fee cover a team over 14 wrestlers? Thus JV gets in at the same price???

If so, Huntington, University, St. Albans and Independence has an opportunity here. MalcolmFlex strongly feels that schedule strength makes wrestlers better. Let's make these JV kids better and take them to Powerade!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you insinuating that strength of schedule and wrestling tough does not make one better? If that's the case, get a clue.

[Frank]

Wrong again buddy. If a kid does a move incorrectly and gets caught and pinned then they will learn that they should have not performed the move incorrectly.

Practice Room

Negative. Doing a move incorrectly on a bad practice partner most likely will not have the same effect on a wrestler's psyche as a real match would. Again, nice try.

Not looking for your approval,
I'm stating a fact.
Good luck this season

[Bearhugger]

Just had a friend tell me that South is taking the varsity entire team up for both days and JV team also.

Amazing Gator. I was was blind but now I see.

[Bearhugger]

Just had a friend tell me that South is taking the varsity entire team up for both days and JV team also.

To confirm, South is taking their JV team to the Powerade??????????

To follow up on IndyHart's comment about the fee, does the team fee cover a team over 14 wrestlers? Thus JV gets in at the same price???

If so, Huntington, University, St. Albans and Independence has an opportunity here. MalcolmFlex strongly feels that schedule strength makes wrestlers better. Let's make these JV kids better and take them to Powerade!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you insinuating that strength of schedule and wrestling tough does not make one better? If that's the case, get a clue.

Not the case. Schedule strength does make the top ten.

[Frank]

IndyHart: I'm headed up to Olentangy Saturday to watch South compete in their Invitational. I will find out if they are taking everyone, but I expect they will.

Best wishes in the tri tonight.

Gator tell everyone we wish them luck. Go Patriots

[Ironeagles]

To save you guys any guessing at 113 AAA Joey miller will dominate this weight class as he already tech called smith from point in just over 4 min 15-0. This kid is in a different level then these returning wrestlers

[greencrush]

South is notorious for having a schedule that does not allow their kids to go undefeated year after year. Which is why South tends to stay near the top year after after in the state. Tell me different and you are a liar.

QFT
Great wrestlers are forged in a crucible; not against butter cup competition.

Coach, South is not just handed funds by the school or BOE to attend events. They have a dedicated, hardworking group of boosters, parents and fans who do fundraisers year round to allow the team to travel. It merely takes folks willing to organize these fundraiser and see them through. Any school can do it if they have the right people in place.

QFT again
Although, I can also agree that it would help if schools would fund their teams to some degree.

[guard0544]

The primary way a wrestler gets better is having practice partners who are quality enough to expose and take advantage of your flaws, and coaches who are able to recognize and explain what you need to correct.

A tough tournament helps some, but not nearly as much as the practice room. If you do not get pushed in practice, or at tournaments, your flaws are not going to be as easily exposed, and they likely will continue forward without being corrected.

[Gator]

greencrush

"QFT again
Although, I can also agree that it would help if schools would fund their teams to some degree."


That would be great if the schools would help in all sports. It would be great if the school administration got behind the lesser income sports.

We usually only have 3-5 wrestling events at home at South or at Parkersburg High and bringing income to the schools is minimal. It would be great if the $$$ from all sports went into a big nest egg and distributed equally. It never works that way.

We do best when we wrestle Indy and Bearhugger and Frank hit the concession stand.

[noshowjoe]

I remember watching the Miller kid and John Martin Best wrestle a few years back at jr states
it was a heck of a match. I wonderd what happened to him .
I figured i would see him at the wsaz tourny but he most not of wrestled for his jr high team.