New Regions AAA - WOW

[jofus]

Depending on what the AA/A regions look like I heard a AA/A has contemplated wrestling up into AAA. Now that would be interesting!!!

I wonder if they still allow that? I know that Williamson did it back in the 90's in basketball (for example, the year G. West beat them in the championship game ). I could definitely see some A/AA schools contemplating this if allowed, with these new regions...

[CommonSense]

hedge and hamp do a great job posting results, but for some reason wash, muss, s mills, mart and jeff don't post most of their results. all i have to go on is what's posted. so here is what could happen if the new regions were in place this year in region 2.106-1-curry-hamp 22-10, 2-hylton-hed 19-9, 3-marrone-wash 4-8, creager-mart 0-5 113-1-wilson-wash #4, 2-arbogast-hamp 5-0, 3-whaler-hed 17-10, 4-rymer-mart 0-3 120-1-powell-hamp 21-11, 2-price-hed 15-12, 3-rawlings-muss 6-5, 4-shiffauer-wash 2-3 126-1-corbin-hamp 15-1, 2-smith-hed 22-5, 3-leapardi-muss 8-4, 4-dryer-wash 2-3 132-1-milleer-hed #9, 2-deadwyler-muss #10, 3-corbin-hamp 19-5, 4-reach-mart 2-4 138-1-odom-hamp 23-3, 2-beach-jeff 4-3, 3-formier-wash 5-7, 4-church-hed 7-17 145-1-pine-wash #2, 2-derito-muss #5, 3-eads-hed 9-4 4-greene-jeff 3-6 152-1-doyle-muss 4-2, 2-stickles-hed 6-2, 3-straughen-hamp 20-12, 4-kerr-wash 0-6 160-1-swisher-hamp #4, 2-barnhart-hed 10-4, 3-ardnt-muss 8-3, 4-cale-sm 4-4 170-1-wright-hamp 21-9, 2-tenney-sm 2-2, 3-parrish-hed 13-14, 4-sine-muss 4-8 182-1-staley-hamp 15-0, 2-sims-mart 3-2, 3-sanon-hed 13-11, 4catlett-sm 4-6 195-1-biller-jeff 4-0, 2-hose-hed 8-2, 3-moreland-hamp 17-12, 4-feastel-sm 1-3 220-1-bowlin-wash #3, 2-estep-muss 11-1, 3-wright-hamp 22-8, 4-sherod-hed 19-14 285-1-lear-hamp 28-4, 2-moran-mart 4-1, 3-smith-hed 6-6, 4-hill-wash 5-5. this would be the chance of a lifetime for some of these guys to make it to the state but it would'nt be fair for alot of kids in r-4

I dont know why results arent posted but you can see updated records and some head to head match ups for Washington and Spring Mills from Winners Choice.

[SpudSlayer]

I agree, a 32 man bracket for AAA would solve the issue, use regionals for place seeding. Would require a new "pill" but that could be done with some effort. There would still be open slots for some weight classes, but it would bring more spectators in the first session (more $).

[Bulldog]

Thank you wvssac recuiting just got stronger

[Crusty1]

Lets do a 32 man bracket!

[Crusty1]

Or the rest of the state can just deal with it the way region 1 has for the last 40 years

[mscoach20]

Depending on what the AA/A regions look like I heard a AA/A has contemplated wrestling up into AAA. Now that would be interesting!!!

I wonder if they still allow that? I know that Williamson did it back in the 90's in basketball (for example, the year G. West beat them in the championship game ). I could definitely see some A/AA schools contemplating this if allowed, with these new regions...

I'm pretty sure if you declare for one sport, you declare for all of the sports.

[mike.carman]

I really like what Wrestle_DaD had to say. Have 1 class state tournament. Some people argue that it would change the team aspect, but they way I see it, not all 14 kids from a school make it to the state tournament anyway. So no one is competing with a full lineup at the state tournament. Make it bigger, bolder and more exciting and bring out the true competitiveness of these kids. This would also make the regional tournaments bigger as well. Throw them all in the mix and let the cream rise.

[aacoach52]

Tench is correct, if you want to go up in class it has to be in all sports.

[mscoach64]

Only 3 real options;

1. Split half of AA to put into AAA and make it AAA/AA and AA/A
2. Put more schools in AAA (like it has been)
3. Go to 4 classes and have AAAA/AAA and AA/AA.....in which case only 12 make it to states.

[aaacoach82]

Since the last count there are more single A schools then there is AAA. Split it up AAA AA A. Why not have three classes for the state tournament ? Would it cost the WVSSAC that much money for 84 more 1st thru 6th place wooden plaques. Same amount of kids to to wrestle, Would there be that many more matches and time involved to do this.

[mscoach64]

Since the last count there are more single A schools then there is AAA. Split it up AAA AA A. Why not have three classes for the state tournament ? Would it cost the WVSSAC that much money for 84 more 1st thru 6th place wooden plaques. Same amount of kids to to wrestle, Would there be that many more matches and time involved to do this.

That would be a good idea, in my opinion, but only if only 12 from each class makes the tournament.....which still would be only 4 more kids than current set up...so it really wouldn't add that many more matches.

[guard0544]

I see no reason to not have one class. Then award 3 team champions based on which AAA, AA and A team scored the most team points. Going to three classes would seem silly to me given how few wrestlers we have in the state.

[south 77]

Region four is a joke, we will not have the best kids at the state. While teams from the other regions will be taking 14 and winning the state. Is this the plan to keep the teams from P-Burg from winning????? we need to just take everyone to the state no regions, just one big fight and that way the right young men will be on the podium.

[CommonSense]

Is this the plan to keep the teams from P-Burg from winning?????

Yep! You guessed it! This whole thing is just a giant ploy to destroy Parkersburg Souths chances of winning... Give me a break.

Like what was said before. No one cares or gets upset about how dominate South has been or how many titles they have won and will win. People only get annoyed by the constant whining of their fans that people are "hating" on South and the turning of EVERY post into a South discussion. Kind of like youre trying to do now.

[south 77]

common sense, Im not trying to make this about South. I used the words teams from P-Burg and you and I know that year after year both these teams kick Butt. Region 4 is going to make it hard for our young men to make it to the states, even if they are ranked as high as 5th. If the best kids aren't there the Quality of wrestling will be down at the state tourn. not only will this hurt P-Burg, but h Huntington, C.M., St. Albans, Spring Valley, Hurr. use some common sense.

[Bearhugger]

Regarding the NEW regions, a quick fix to all of this would be as follows:

Region 1: Move Buck Up OUT and put them into region 3. Move South BACK to region 1. This makes region 3 a little better and takes some power out of region 4.

Region 4: Gave up South and in return, they can pick up South Charleston. That way they still get a "south" team. PHS can stay in region 4. BOTH Parkersburg teams do not have to be in the same region. Kanawha county had 12 high schools in the 80s. Dunbar, Sissonville and Catholic were all AA/A. The other nine schools had wrestling teams and they were split between regions 3 and 4.

Region 2: Leave as is. Makes sense.

Region 3. This region has had Buck Up before. They can have them back.

Quick fix before the major overhauls are implemented on how the state tournament and its qualifying process is determined for the future.

[admin]

From the Editor:
These are the reported new regional alignments. I have been working on new region maps today. They look like this:

aaregionx.jpg (186.17 KiB) Viewed 13820 times

aaaregionx.jpg (107.76 KiB) Viewed 13820 times

[admin]

From the Editor:

These are NOT the new regional alignments. But, if I were doing it, I'd do it this way:

aaajunk2.jpg (102.88 KiB) Viewed 13807 times

aajunk2.jpg (166.27 KiB) Viewed 13807 times

[Bearhugger]

So the average region in AAA has 7 schools and in AA/A the region has 17.

The new talking points next year will be:

1. AA/A wrestler "Hank" isn't ranked in the top 10 in AA/A but he holds wins over 3 to 4 RANKED wrestlers in AAA in his weight class.

2. AA/A wrestler "Hank" doesn't qualify for the state tournament because his region/weight class has 6 ranked wrestlers. However, "Hank" holds wins over 2 wrestlers who not only qualify in AAA..........they place.

3. We will see AAA regions with weight classes that do not have 4 wrestlers. Might be time to let the JV kids attempt to wrestle their way into the state tournament.

[wvgymrott]

So Bearhugger is there any steps that can be taken now to stop or prevent this from happening ?

[Bearhugger]

You got me. I am speechless.

We better start a wild card system or consolidate more schools to make more "temporary" AAA schools.

It appears many of these newer consolidated schools are dropping down to AA or already have.

[coach_stump]

Dr. Miller, I proposed an alignment very similar to yours, just a few changes, sent it to several coaches for their opinion and most favored it. Gave it to our high school to submit it to the WVSSAC and did. Must have fell on deaf ears. Not sure what their thought was, but I guess they know more than the majority of wrestling coaches throughout this state. And the AAA is quite a joke as well.

[admin]

I was not very clear. "Not proposed" on my maps means "not proposed by the SSAC." I should have labeled my maps "The editor's idea" or some such.

It is good to know that other suggested alignments were submitted. The other maps are a depiction of what seems to be the current reality. It should be noted that this has not been posted on the WVSSAC site.

[grapple158]

I seem to remember when they went to changing alignments every 4 years that they would attempt to maintain congruent numbers in each aligned class. For whatever reason, they have chosen to move teams down to A/AA but no one up to AAA to maintain a balance.

It also seems teams have been competing at a AAA level while having an enrollment at the A/AA level for some time (case in point: Pt. Pleasant, which went from a small AAA to being down the list of largest A/AA teams). This would seem to mean some of the largest A/AA schools could/should have been moved back to AAA.

A realignment every 4 years seems too long of a time. Maybe every 2 or 3 years?

[JennyHannan]

For what it's worth, I took the entrants from the 2015 regional tournaments and put them all in a spreadsheet. I then took those same teams/regions and realigned them with the 2017 classifications, but using the 2015 data.

I realize the numbers aren't exactly the same, but if you took the 2015 wrestlers and put them in the 2017 classifications, the 106-pounders in the proposed AA/A Region 1 would get screwed over big time. There were 11 106-pounders from the schools that will make up AA/A Region 1 in 2017. There were 2 106-pounders from the schools that will make up AA/A Region 4 in 2017.

In my opinion, a regional tournament-style qualifying event does not work well for an individual sport such as wrestling, especially when there are so many schools with 1, 2, or 3 wrestlers, compared to a few that field a full team, leading to the possibility of a vacancy at the state tournament. I know it's been said before, but I think that the 5th place finishers from all regions should be given the chance to wrestle for a spot in the state tournament when the lack of participants in one or more other regions has caused a vacancy.

My dream situation, though, would be to let all varsity participants wrestle in one state tournament. If you look at totals at the top of the spreadsheet, no weight class had more than 64 entrants in both divisions combined. A 64-man bracket at the state tournament would allow for all schools to enter their entire varsity team. (I don't really agree that junior varsity wrestlers should wrestle in the state tournament, even though I know there are JV wrestlers at "my" school who could probably place in the state tournament. I believe that it's an honor to make the varsity team, and that it gives a kid something to work harder for.) A 64-man bracket with one state champion per weight class, and a team champion for each of the three divisions (like they do at the OVAC and the WSAZ) would be ideal in my book.

Hey, you could still have the regional tournaments to use as criteria for seeding, but I don't believe it should be the only criteria. Perhaps if coaches knew that the WVMat.com/WV Coaches Association Polls were the main seeding criteria, then they'd make sure their results got posted.

Anyway, if you haven't fallen asleep by now reading this long post, take a look at my spreadsheet and pick it (and my opinion) apart as you so desire.

Now, let me see if I can remember how to attach this thing. LOL

[JennyHannan]

Oh, and perhaps if a school has a 5th place finisher qualify for a vacant spot under my scenario, I think he should be considered a non-scoring wrestler (since he didn't finish in the top 4 in his region), but he could still place. Does that make sense?

[grapple158]

As an old-timer I have to disagree with going back to one class for a state championship. When the division was made in 1976 a great number of schools added teams, at least one reason being the ability to compete. Two divisions, I would argue, is better for the sport as a whole.

The OVAC format is wonderful for a conference championship but has inherent drawbacks, especially for a state championship. Easiest way to demonstrate is with a scenario: A single-A wrestler loses to (or defeats) a three-A wrestler in the semi-finals, either losing points (or gaining points) within that division. Neither the loss nor the gain are directly related to the resultant team score.

[JennyHannan]

In both the OVAC and the WSAZ, all points earned go toward the final team scores, regardless of whether or not a wrestler defeats someone in his own division. The team in each division with the highest score becomes the champion of that division.

If that's not what you're saying, then I apologize for interpreting it wrong. I think all the wrestlers deserve equal credit, regardless of the size of the school they represent. I never understood why back in the 70's and early 80's, the AA/A teams weren't allowed to qualify as many wrestlers as the AAA teams were.

I don't think there's an easy way to solve this, unfortunately. The powers that be don't seem to be willing to listen to opposing viewpoints, or reason, for that matter.

[grapple158]

Yes, all points earned go into the total. But, think of it this way: An OVAC finals match is won by Team single-A over a Team five-A competitor, costing the large school the overall and 5-A titles by one point. Though legitimate, the only true validity is determined by having like classes compete exclusively. Fine for a conference or invitational if they choose to do it this way, but not for state level.